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23.03.07 Interview with Serge Tinland, initiator of the Phenix Project (1/2)

Serge Tinland

Born in 1962 in La Vienne, France, 44 years old, single, upper level technician in deep sea diving training and advisor in aeronautical training for the last 12 years for the National Educational System, then CCINCA (Chambre de Commerce et d'Industrie Nice Côte d'Azur [Chamber of Commerce and Industry of the French Riviera] see biography to download). My innate curiosity as well as my spirit of adventure and enterprise has always carried me forward, off the beaten path, in search of answers to the questions mankind has never stopped asking.

Today more than ever, after more than 35 years of thinking about the subject and UFO (Unidentified Flying Object) dossier and EBE (Extraterrestrial Biological Entity) and I am convinced that it is necessary and urgent that mankind free itself from the cloak of obscurity and disinformation so that the facts and evidence can be clearly seen and thus can move forward, take new paths, and break through new stages in evolution.

Having experienced numerous human technological and scientific adventures, today I offer to you - entrepreneurs with a spirit of adventure, financiers, corporate sponsors, open-minded donors - a dossier and project of unequalled importance, of incalculable consequences, for you, but also for the whole of humanity: The Phenix Project

Do you have any hypotheses to explain the apparent absence of attempts of direct contact between extraterrestrials and people from Earth?

Serge Tinland
First let's consider it from a terrestrial point of view.

The resolutely anthropocentric position of our way of thinking has a lot to do with this lack of planetary interest in any official attempt to contact an extraterrestrial civilization.

For many people we are still the center of the universe. Renowned intellectuals and scientists of many fields still think today that the universe was created as the cradle to receive mankind and only mankind.

As the question of the presence of extraterrestrial life has always been an unconscious preoccupation for mankind, little means have actually been used, even in the last century, to definitely solve this fundamental question that mankind has asked since its appearance on Earth. Why?

1) We are the center of the universe and so from a philosophic and scientific point of view, it is not necessary to look any further in this way of thinking.

It is mainly this attitude which is reassuring and protectionist that is a primary brake for all attempts for direct contact between people from Earth and extraterrestrial civilizations.

But still ?

Serge Tinland
2) Another unconscious phenomenon of natural protection that mankind possesses is to avoid asking fundamental questions to world leaders; questions which, according to their response, could lead to total destruction. And if not, towards such a questioning, such a change of paradigm, that the effects would be also devastating from a social, philosophical, scientific, economic and political point of view.

3) Excessive self-confidence and conceit are characteristic of most of our scientists who think they have all the answers, and who could not bear to face a discovery of an extraterrestrial intelligent life. The discovery tomorrow of a structured, organized extraterrestrial life with a highly evolved civilization, one more advanced than ours, could lead to possible chaos in our scientific institutions. Our scholars are aware of this and it is also for this reason that they do very little officially on a large scale in the search for extraterrestrial intelligent life.

4) The current geopolitical circumstances are the reasons why mankind is unable to solve its own problems and does not see the highly positive usefulness that such a contact could bring.

5) The deliberate willingness of world governments to openly avoid for the moment this subject, maybe knowing in advance the answer, could lead the people of the world to uncontrolled and irreparable upheaval. Ever since the first waves of UFOs in the 1950s, it is unthinkable that at the beginning at the 21st century, that the governments of the richest countries of the world have not once asked the question, even if this may not have had anything to do with a show of force, power or intelligence of an unspecified extraterrestrial civilization.

One must realize that from a earthly point of view, to officially want to make direct contact with an extraterrestrial civilization comes above all things under the domain of determination, desire, and the understanding of the need to leave the cradle of original life on earth, recognizing that it has its place in the universe for the same reason as all living beings.

Therefore, from the point of view of Humanity this is above all, the desire to offer your hand to others, towards their destiny and not just the means to bring things into play scientifically as well as technologically.

If we take the question from the point of view of an extraterrestrial civilization, it is something altogether different.

There is one fundamental fact that cannot be forgotten, and that is Time. In fact we are surrounded by millions and billions of stars much older than our Sun. It appears logical and evident that we should be surrounded by a multitude of civilizations older than our own.

For this reason, their technological, scientific level would also be as advanced. Advanced enough so that they could have for thousands of years migrated towards new worlds, new solar systems, and new galaxies.

Now let's imagine that since a long time they have been at our door, then why this lack of direct contact with our civilization?

Simply because first of all, that the structures are different and cannot communicate because t one of them, the weaker, the more primitive, has not yet arrived at an evolutionary stage that would allow this communication.

We would be today only at the stage of permanent observation, such as with our friends the gorillas in the mountains of Africa or with the colonies of red ants in Indonesia.

One civilization decides to communicate with another for a precise reason. They are looking for something. They need something. At this stage there is contact and then exchange.

If one civilization thinks that they can not learn anything from the other, can not receive anything in exchange from a direct contact, this contact will automatically be absent, prohibited or protected.

Absent, only by disinterest, indifference.

Prohibited, because certain extraterrestrial civilizations can quite simply protect at their discretion, certain "primitive" civilizations such as ours, from the "quarrelsome" intentions of other races, other people, other civilizations less disposed.

Protected, simply because contacts with only very specific aims are authorized between advanced and " primitive " civilizations so that there is no negative interference in the evolutionary progress of the less advanced civilization.

Our earthly civilization is only at its very first stage of evolution. It has only been a short time that we have emitted electromagnetic waves, that we have travelled from one continent to another, that we have made small forays outside our atmosphere.

It could be that our world has been visited many times since its creation by diverse races and extraterrestrial people without leaving any apparent trace of their passage.

Once more, one needs a stated interest to be able to start a direct, official contact.

To date, nothing says that this contact has not already taken place.

Certain of us know how important it is, how urgent, how essential, how vital to do everything to try to enter in direct contact with one or more extraterrestrial civilizations, and this for the good of humanity.

The program SETI, Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence at the end of the 1950s was originally conceived with the objective to try to locate electromagnetic waves emitted by civilizations having entered the industrial, technological and scientific stage.

SETI gathers projects whose goal is to detect signals that a non-terrestrial intelligence could emit, voluntarily or not, from its planet of origin. For this, the projects analyze radio or laser waves coming from space and try to detect their signals against background noise

Only this is not a highly developed civilization that would potentially be detectable but a "primitive" civilization such as ours. A civilization with thousands of years of scientific advancement over ours would do everything possible to be undetectable from the search by "primitive" civilizations.

The problem with traditional SETI research is trying to find proof of the existence of intelligent electromagnetic emissions from outside Earth.

Unfortunately the probability of such a discovery if it is not intentional would be extremely low. The reflection of the Phenix Project is for a new approach to the problem of discovery of proof and then on to the final stage, that of direct contact.

If extraterrestrials manifest themselves to us, in what manner will they do it and eventually what precautions will they take?

Serge Tinland
If extraterrestrials manifest themselves to us intentionally in the coming years, it is evident that this will be completely planned to precisely choose their channels of communications.

Either the contact is direct or it is direct.

In the case of indirect contact; intentional detection of an electromagnetic signal from them by our scientists in civil or military programs, sending of an interplanetary probe as an ambassador, landing of an ambassador probe on one or more territories, etc., the news will first of all have to be confirmed by the body of the official scientific authorities of Earth.

A planetary study should be undertaken to determine if the intentions are pacific or not of the contact. Then after unilateral dialog with the world governments the news will have to be officialized via the United Nations to all the people of Earth in the name of humanity.

If we find ourselves before a direct contact, namely the placing of one or more ambassador extraterrestrial vessels in orbit around Earth, or of these vessels landing on one or more territories on Earth, the choice of channels of communication to announce this news will be done automatically and naturally.

From the moment when they decide to manifest themselves to us directly, and considering their scientific and technological level, we can do nothing more than adopt an open mind and natural welcome with them.

How do you explain that the SETI project has not produced anything up to now?

Serge Tinland
Since the first Ozma project of Frank Drake in 1959, there have been more than 80 SETI programs or projects across the world.

The means implemented to try to detect emissions of electromagnetic or laser waves, intentional or not, of an extraterrestrial civilization is to this day a total and official failure.

For many, the chances of the success of SETI program is in the sum of the knowledge that we have now from the appearance of life in a system structured or not, linked at the same time to the likelihood of the emergence of intelligent life, then to technological and scientific development.

Currently the different SETI programs all work in one direction, that of detecting intentional or non-intentional emission of laser or electromagnetic waves from an extraterrestrial civilization. The scientific or technological means are more and more advanced in terms how sensitive the detectors are. But there is still total silence, why?

Several hypotheses:

-Our detectors are still not powerful enough to capture them;
-Our detectors are not calibrated on the right frequency;
-We have already recorded extraterrestrials emissions but we don't know how to differentiate between cosmic background noise and artificial waves;
-We cannot detect their presence because they are doing everything so that we can't; they have rendered them undetectable;
-We have already detected their emissions but we are keeping this secret for strategic reasons;

Just the opposite, we can also estimate that are current failure is due to the fact that:

-Life is only developed on Earth;
-Life doesn't necessarily evolve through intelligence therefore through scientific and technological development;
-Intelligent life has never had the time to spread outside of its system; it self-destructs way before that;
- Extraterrestrial civilisations exist but they cannot contact us as they are at the same stage of evolution as Humanity. They are, therefore, not capable of doing so at this stage of their knowledge;
-Extraterrestrial civilizations exist but they do nothing to try to contact us;
-Extraterrestrial civilizations exist, they have visited us, they are still visiting, but they have not officially declared their presence;
-Extraterrestrial civilizations exist, they manifest themselves by various processes which we do not as yet understand nor grasp.

That to this day we have no official result does not mean that The Fermi paradox or the Drake Equation are wrong in their formulation and therefore in their applications and purposes.

The different traditional SETI programs each have legitimate scientific and technological basis and should continue developing and to develop new technologies of detection that are more and more effective and pertinent.

However it seems evident to me that we are not looking in the right direction since practically a century.

We look towards the stars to try to discern their possible presence whereas it appears evident to me that we must look towards Earth to be able to find potential traces of their actual passage or presence.

Which brings us to The Phenix Project, a new SETI research concept, called SETAV based on a SETV (Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation or Search for Extraterrestrial Probes in the Solar System or on Earth) and also on a SETA protocol (Search for Extraterrestrial Artefact in the Solar System or on Earth).

According to you, are the Panspermia or the Directed Panspermia Theories advocated by Francis Crick (one of the co-discoverers of the structure of the DNA molecule) valid?

Serge Tinland
The Murchison meteorite which fell on September 28, 1969 in Australia contained 70 amino acids of which eight came from living beings brings credit to the panspermia theory, even if it could have perfectly well been contaminated during its entry into the Earth's atmosphere

This theory was proposed by Arrhenius in 1905. It still receives favourable reception today by a part of the international scientific community as a possibility of the natural propagation of life in the universe.

If we leave from the postulate that life is something as natural as energy, the matter or the light of the universe, then, the theory of panspermia is possible.

In general, we still only know very little about the whole process of the appearance of life. We are today considering the possibility that our world evolved from a living world where RNA would fulfil all the functions.

Organic molecules have been identified in space by astrophysicists. The first organic molecules, would they have appeared and come from the outer reaches of the universe, travelling freely in interstellar space?

Let us imagine that we have arrived at a stage of our evolution where our technology could terraform other planets, the planet Mars in our solar system for example. What we would do would be to transport all the necessary elements for the appearance of life in all forms, the first step being to create a viable atmosphere to provide the basis for the establishment of life. These are the things that we seriously envision in the framework of our reflections about colonization in the future.

If on our part at our stage of evolution we can have this type of reflection, imagine for one second the level of reflection and action of a civilization several hundreds or thousands of years more advanced than humanity. This civilization would have long since totally gone beyond this simple stage of reflection and projection and they would be at the level of concretization of their project for the creation and implantation of life on the thousands of solar systems across the galaxy or other galaxies.

Therefore the possibility that life of Earth could have been deliberately deposited by an extraterrestrial civilization is not a hypothesis that should be immediately put aside.

The rest to be discovered…

Do you think the speed of light to be an obstacle for all forms of civilizations?

Serge Tinland
Absolutely not.

Our current system is based on Newtonian and Einsteinium physics.

It could be possible that the physics which today shapes our world, equations which characterize our reference systems, are partly wrong. Everything remains to be discovered in this domain.

Every day our physicists working in the realm of particle accelerators push back the frontiers of our reality.

What seems correct today may not be so tomorrow.

Those who are against the possibility that we can one day make contact with an extraterrestrial civilization cite the problem of impassable distances which separate us from other stars, and of the impossibility of one day exceeding the speed of light.

Today that is the case. Our physical appearance does not allow us to conceive a technology that can equal or exceed the speed of light. Only we are thinking with our current reference points, and these may or may not be applicable throughout the observable universe.

It is possible that civilizations more ancient than ours have mastered others forms of travel to reach distant points in the galaxy.

-mastery of curves in space-time
-master of subliminal flight
-mastery of body stasis
-mastery of time travel
-mastery of gravity amplifiers to fold time and space
-mastery of hyperspace engines
-mastery of temporal dimensions
-and others?

The problem of distances and the resolution of this are only relevant to the level of science and technology implemented to resolve the problem.

An extraterrestrial civilization thousands of years in advance of our civilization will have had the time to find scientific and technological solutions to these problems.

It is only a question of time and of the level of science and technology that we are talking about.

Do you think that contact with extraterrestrials has already been made or is taking place now but has not been made public for very valid reasons?

Serge Tinland
As I said before, for contact to be made between different civilizations extraterrestrials or not, there has to be a good reason for this to take place.

For more than 60 years different rumors have circulated (and only rumors, without any tangible, scientific, or empirical proof) in the closed circle of those who study, more or less seriously, the UFO dossier across the world.

These rumors speak about contact made from the 1960s to today with several extraterrestrial civilizations and several of our governments. The contact would have been established in order to set up strategic exchanges in various fields, in particular transfer of extraterrestrial technology to humans and thorough studies of humanity by certain extraterrestrial races without intervention on behalf of humans.

If we adopt the fact that life abounds by the billions throughout all the galaxy and universe and that a negligible part of this came to visit us in the past and even today, for purposes yet to be defined, it is possible that a fraction of these extraterrestrial races made official contact and exchange with people from Earth, for strategic and specific purposes in their mutual interests.

It is a viable possibility while still maintaining a vigilant spirit. Where there's smoke there's fire, right? No one to this day has reported absolutely concrete facts of the effective presence of an extraterrestrial race on Earth with implications of our governments.

It is for this reason that it is urgent to set up a new institution having the human, material and financial means to work independently in an exclusively scientific manner on this dossier for the search for intelligent extraterrestrial life.

This institution should look at the dossier in a new way, not only in a scientific, empirical manner but also with an open mind, open to all possibilities and eventualities.

This new institution exists on paper, the project is ready, it is called; The Phenix Project.

Continuation of article on Page 2

The current status of fundraising and initial contact with the scientific community.

  Page 1 / 2

Phenix Project : Are we alone in Space? (23.03.07)
Part Two of the interview with Serge Tinland, initiator of The Phenix Project. (23.03.07)

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