with Serge Tinland, initiator of the Phenix Project (1/2)
Born in 1962 in La Vienne, France, 44 years old, single, upper level
technician in deep sea diving training and advisor in aeronautical
training for the last 12 years for the National Educational System,
then CCINCA (Chambre de Commerce et d'Industrie Nice Côte d'Azur
[Chamber of Commerce and Industry of the French Riviera] see biography
to download). My innate curiosity as well as my spirit of adventure
and enterprise has always carried me forward, off the beaten path,
in search of answers to the questions mankind has never stopped
Today more than ever, after more than 35 years of thinking about
the subject and UFO (Unidentified Flying Object) dossier and EBE
(Extraterrestrial Biological Entity) and I am convinced that it
is necessary and urgent that mankind free itself from the cloak
of obscurity and disinformation so that the facts and evidence can
be clearly seen and thus can move forward, take new paths, and break
through new stages in evolution.
Having experienced numerous human technological and scientific adventures,
today I offer to you - entrepreneurs with a spirit of adventure,
financiers, corporate sponsors, open-minded donors - a dossier and
project of unequalled importance, of incalculable consequences,
for you, but also for the whole of humanity: The
Do you have any hypotheses to explain the apparent absence of
attempts of direct contact between extraterrestrials and people
First let's consider it from a terrestrial point of view.
The resolutely anthropocentric position of our way of thinking has
a lot to do with this lack of planetary interest in any official
attempt to contact an extraterrestrial civilization.
For many people we are still the center of the universe. Renowned
intellectuals and scientists of many fields still think today that
the universe was created as the cradle to receive mankind and only
As the question of the presence of extraterrestrial life has always
been an unconscious preoccupation for mankind, little means have
actually been used, even in the last century, to definitely solve
this fundamental question that mankind has asked since its appearance
on Earth. Why?
1) We are the center of the universe and so from a philosophic
and scientific point of view, it is not necessary to look any further
in this way of thinking.
It is mainly this attitude which is reassuring and protectionist
that is a primary brake for all attempts for direct contact between
people from Earth and extraterrestrial civilizations.
But still ?
2) Another unconscious phenomenon of natural protection that
mankind possesses is to avoid asking fundamental questions to world
leaders; questions which, according to their response, could lead
to total destruction. And if not, towards such a questioning, such
a change of paradigm, that the effects would be also devastating
from a social, philosophical, scientific, economic and political
point of view.
3) Excessive self-confidence and conceit are characteristic
of most of our scientists who think they have all the answers, and
who could not bear to face a discovery of an extraterrestrial intelligent
life. The discovery tomorrow of a structured, organized extraterrestrial
life with a highly evolved civilization, one more advanced than
ours, could lead to possible chaos in our scientific institutions.
Our scholars are aware of this and it is also for this reason that
they do very little officially on a large scale in the search for
extraterrestrial intelligent life.
4) The current geopolitical circumstances are the reasons
why mankind is unable to solve its own problems and does not see
the highly positive usefulness that such a contact could bring.
5) The deliberate willingness of world governments to openly
avoid for the moment this subject, maybe knowing in advance the
answer, could lead the people of the world to uncontrolled and irreparable
upheaval. Ever since the first waves of UFOs in the 1950s, it is
unthinkable that at the beginning at the 21st century, that the
governments of the richest countries of the world have not once
asked the question, even if this may not have had anything to do
with a show of force, power or intelligence of an unspecified extraterrestrial
One must realize that from a earthly point of view, to officially
want to make direct contact with an extraterrestrial civilization
comes above all things under the domain of determination, desire,
and the understanding of the need to leave the cradle of original
life on earth, recognizing that it has its place in the universe
for the same reason as all living beings.
Therefore, from the point of view of Humanity this is above all,
the desire to offer your hand to others, towards their destiny and
not just the means to bring things into play scientifically as well
If we take the question from the point of view of an extraterrestrial
civilization, it is something altogether different.
There is one fundamental fact that cannot be forgotten, and that
is Time. In fact we are surrounded by millions and billions of stars
much older than our Sun. It appears logical and evident that we
should be surrounded by a multitude of civilizations older than
For this reason, their technological, scientific level would also
be as advanced. Advanced enough so that they could have for thousands
of years migrated towards new worlds, new solar systems, and new
Now let's imagine that since a long time they have been at our door,
then why this lack of direct contact with our civilization?
Simply because first of all, that the structures are different and
cannot communicate because t one of them, the weaker, the more primitive,
has not yet arrived at an evolutionary stage that would allow this
We would be today only at the stage of permanent observation, such
as with our friends the gorillas in the mountains of Africa or with
the colonies of red ants in Indonesia.
One civilization decides to communicate with another for a precise
reason. They are looking for something. They need something. At
this stage there is contact and then exchange.
If one civilization thinks that they can not learn anything from
the other, can not receive anything in exchange from a direct contact,
this contact will automatically be absent, prohibited or protected.
Absent, only by disinterest, indifference.
Prohibited, because certain extraterrestrial civilizations can quite
simply protect at their discretion, certain "primitive" civilizations
such as ours, from the "quarrelsome" intentions of other races,
other people, other civilizations less disposed.
Protected, simply because contacts with only very specific aims
are authorized between advanced and " primitive " civilizations
so that there is no negative interference in the evolutionary progress
of the less advanced civilization.
Our earthly civilization is only at its very first stage of evolution.
It has only been a short time that we have emitted electromagnetic
waves, that we have travelled from one continent to another, that
we have made small forays outside our atmosphere.
It could be that our world has been visited many times since its
creation by diverse races and extraterrestrial people without leaving
any apparent trace of their passage.
Once more, one needs a stated interest to be able to start a direct,
To date, nothing says that this contact has not already taken place.
Certain of us know how important it is, how urgent, how essential,
how vital to do everything to try to enter in direct contact with
one or more extraterrestrial civilizations, and this for the good
The program SETI, Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence at the
end of the 1950s was originally conceived with the objective to
try to locate electromagnetic waves emitted by civilizations having
entered the industrial, technological and scientific stage.
SETI gathers projects whose goal is to detect signals that a non-terrestrial
intelligence could emit, voluntarily or not, from its planet of
origin. For this, the projects analyze radio or laser waves coming
from space and try to detect their signals against background noise
Only this is not a highly developed civilization that would potentially
be detectable but a "primitive" civilization such as ours. A civilization
with thousands of years of scientific advancement over ours would
do everything possible to be undetectable from the search by "primitive"
The problem with traditional SETI research is trying to find proof
of the existence of intelligent electromagnetic emissions from outside
Unfortunately the probability of such a discovery if it is not intentional
would be extremely low. The reflection of the Phenix Project is
for a new approach to the problem of discovery of proof and then
on to the final stage, that of direct contact.
If extraterrestrials manifest themselves to us, in what manner
will they do it and eventually what precautions will they take?
If extraterrestrials manifest themselves to us intentionally in
the coming years, it is evident that this will be completely planned
to precisely choose their channels of communications.
Either the contact is direct or it is direct.
In the case of indirect contact; intentional detection of an electromagnetic
signal from them by our scientists in civil or military programs,
sending of an interplanetary probe as an ambassador, landing of
an ambassador probe on one or more territories, etc., the news will
first of all have to be confirmed by the body of the official scientific
authorities of Earth.
A planetary study should be undertaken to determine if the intentions
are pacific or not of the contact. Then after unilateral dialog
with the world governments the news will have to be officialized
via the United Nations to all the people of Earth in the name of
If we find ourselves before a direct contact, namely the placing
of one or more ambassador extraterrestrial vessels in orbit around
Earth, or of these vessels landing on one or more territories on
Earth, the choice of channels of communication to announce this
news will be done automatically and naturally.
From the moment when they decide to manifest themselves to us directly,
and considering their scientific and technological level, we can
do nothing more than adopt an open mind and natural welcome with
How do you explain that the SETI project has not produced anything
up to now?
Since the first Ozma project of Frank Drake in 1959, there have
been more than 80 SETI programs or projects across the world.
The means implemented to try to detect emissions of electromagnetic
or laser waves, intentional or not, of an extraterrestrial civilization
is to this day a total and official failure.
For many, the chances of the success of SETI program is in the sum
of the knowledge that we have now from the appearance of life in
a system structured or not, linked at the same time to the likelihood
of the emergence of intelligent life, then to technological and
Currently the different SETI programs all work in one direction,
that of detecting intentional or non-intentional emission of laser
or electromagnetic waves from an extraterrestrial civilization.
The scientific or technological means are more and more advanced
in terms how sensitive the detectors are. But there is still total
-Our detectors are still not powerful enough to capture them;
-Our detectors are not calibrated on the right frequency;
-We have already recorded extraterrestrials emissions but we don't
know how to differentiate between cosmic background noise and artificial
-We cannot detect their presence because they are doing everything
so that we can't; they have rendered them undetectable;
-We have already detected their emissions but we are keeping this
secret for strategic reasons;
Just the opposite, we can also estimate that are current failure
is due to the fact that:
-Life is only developed on Earth;
-Life doesn't necessarily evolve through intelligence therefore
through scientific and technological development;
-Intelligent life has never had the time to spread outside of its
system; it self-destructs way before that;
- Extraterrestrial civilisations exist but they cannot contact us
as they are at the same stage of evolution as Humanity. They are,
therefore, not capable of doing so at this stage of their knowledge;
-Extraterrestrial civilizations exist but they do nothing to try
to contact us;
-Extraterrestrial civilizations exist, they have visited us, they
are still visiting, but they have not officially declared their
-Extraterrestrial civilizations exist, they manifest themselves
by various processes which we do not as yet understand nor grasp.
That to this day we have no official result does not mean that The
Fermi paradox or the Drake Equation are wrong in their formulation
and therefore in their applications and purposes.
The different traditional SETI programs each have legitimate scientific
and technological basis and should continue developing and to develop
new technologies of detection that are more and more effective and
However it seems evident to me that we are not looking in the right
direction since practically a century.
We look towards the stars to try to discern their possible presence
whereas it appears evident to me that we must look towards Earth
to be able to find potential traces of their actual passage or presence.
Which brings us to The Phenix Project, a new SETI research concept,
called SETAV based on a SETV (Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation
or Search for Extraterrestrial Probes in the Solar System or on
Earth) and also on a SETA protocol (Search for Extraterrestrial
Artefact in the Solar System or on Earth).
According to you, are the Panspermia or the Directed Panspermia
Theories advocated by Francis Crick (one of the co-discoverers of
the structure of the DNA molecule) valid?
The Murchison meteorite which fell on September 28, 1969 in Australia
contained 70 amino acids of which eight came from living beings
brings credit to the panspermia theory, even if it could have perfectly
well been contaminated during its entry into the Earth's atmosphere
This theory was proposed by Arrhenius in 1905. It still receives
favourable reception today by a part of the international scientific
community as a possibility of the natural propagation of life in
If we leave from the postulate that life is something as natural
as energy, the matter or the light of the universe, then, the theory
of panspermia is possible.
In general, we still only know very little about the whole process
of the appearance of life. We are today considering the possibility
that our world evolved from a living world where RNA would fulfil
all the functions.
Organic molecules have been identified in space by astrophysicists.
The first organic molecules, would they have appeared and come from
the outer reaches of the universe, travelling freely in interstellar
Let us imagine that we have arrived at a stage of our evolution
where our technology could terraform other planets, the planet Mars
in our solar system for example. What we would do would be to transport
all the necessary elements for the appearance of life in all forms,
the first step being to create a viable atmosphere to provide the
basis for the establishment of life. These are the things that we
seriously envision in the framework of our reflections about colonization
in the future.
If on our part at our stage of evolution we can have this type of
reflection, imagine for one second the level of reflection and action
of a civilization several hundreds or thousands of years more advanced
than humanity. This civilization would have long since totally gone
beyond this simple stage of reflection and projection and they would
be at the level of concretization of their project for the creation
and implantation of life on the thousands of solar systems across
the galaxy or other galaxies.
Therefore the possibility that life of Earth could have been deliberately
deposited by an extraterrestrial civilization is not a hypothesis
that should be immediately put aside.
The rest to be discovered…
Do you think the speed of light to be an obstacle for all forms
Our current system is based on Newtonian and Einsteinium physics.
It could be possible that the physics which today shapes our world,
equations which characterize our reference systems, are partly wrong.
Everything remains to be discovered in this domain.
Every day our physicists working in the realm of particle accelerators
push back the frontiers of our reality.
What seems correct today may not be so tomorrow.
Those who are against the possibility that we can one day make contact
with an extraterrestrial civilization cite the problem of impassable
distances which separate us from other stars, and of the impossibility
of one day exceeding the speed of light.
Today that is the case. Our physical appearance does not allow us
to conceive a technology that can equal or exceed the speed of light.
Only we are thinking with our current reference points, and these
may or may not be applicable throughout the observable universe.
It is possible that civilizations more ancient than ours have mastered
others forms of travel to reach distant points in the galaxy.
-mastery of curves in space-time
-master of subliminal flight
-mastery of body stasis
-mastery of time travel
-mastery of gravity amplifiers to fold time and space
-mastery of hyperspace engines
-mastery of temporal dimensions
The problem of distances and the resolution of this are only relevant
to the level of science and technology implemented to resolve the
An extraterrestrial civilization thousands of years in advance of
our civilization will have had the time to find scientific and technological
solutions to these problems.
It is only a question of time and of the level of science and technology
that we are talking about.
Do you think that contact with extraterrestrials has already been
made or is taking place now but has not been made public for very
As I said before, for contact to be made between different civilizations
extraterrestrials or not, there has to be a good reason for this
to take place.
For more than 60 years different rumors have circulated (and only
rumors, without any tangible, scientific, or empirical proof) in
the closed circle of those who study, more or less seriously, the
UFO dossier across the world.
These rumors speak about contact made from the 1960s to today with
several extraterrestrial civilizations and several of our governments.
The contact would have been established in order to set up strategic
exchanges in various fields, in particular transfer of extraterrestrial
technology to humans and thorough studies of humanity by certain
extraterrestrial races without intervention on behalf of humans.
If we adopt the fact that life abounds by the billions throughout
all the galaxy and universe and that a negligible part of this came
to visit us in the past and even today, for purposes yet to be defined,
it is possible that a fraction of these extraterrestrial races made
official contact and exchange with people from Earth, for strategic
and specific purposes in their mutual interests.
It is a viable possibility while still maintaining a vigilant spirit.
Where there's smoke there's fire, right? No one to this day has
reported absolutely concrete facts of the effective presence of
an extraterrestrial race on Earth with implications of our governments.
It is for this reason that it is urgent to set up a new institution
having the human, material and financial means to work independently
in an exclusively scientific manner on this dossier for the search
for intelligent extraterrestrial life.
This institution should look at the dossier in a new way, not only
in a scientific, empirical manner but also with an open mind, open
to all possibilities and eventualities.
This new institution exists on paper, the project is ready, it is
called; The .
Continuation of article on
The current status of fundraising and initial
contact with the scientific community.
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